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Oscalantine
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PostSubject: Desk of Influence   Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:38 am

This is to be the fancy desk of influence.

Basically... since E has been wanting this so much... and basically it will become increasingly hard for people to read my moves... I decided to make a clear distinction on how many countries and how many governance is in the world straight off. Of course... I am free to be objected and retorted.




Before going through with this plan... this thread is reserved to debates on how this should work. Once under effect, the U//C sign will be erased and or replaced.

So... I am basing this upon a few assumptions:

1. Tiberiam has every government system plus more theoretical government system that the world has.
2. Tiberiam is roughly the size of the Earth.
3. No major government in Tiberiam has yet to FULLY devote to influencing the world
4. No world government organization such as United Nations has been ratified or made yet
5. No international organizations has enough influence to boss around any countries



With that... here are base information

1. Tiberiam will copy world's accounting of the legitimate countries... which is 211.
2. Democracy is NOT the most prominent government. However, it is still present and well accounted for.
3. Dictatorship is MOST LIKELY the most prominent government.
4. There is no such thing as "best government" in Tiberiam. No government structure has won the war of attrition yet.


Last edited by Oscalantine on Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:38 am

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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:59 pm

I suppose first order of business is how to classify each influence.

I mean... Communism is a good example. Christianity is another. Democracy is... well, it is a good example of spreading influence as well. What should be the medium of influence chart? Country? Ideology?
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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:31 pm

This wouldn't work.

I mean, would you take orders from a somebody just because he's the most influential according to this?

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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:08 pm

Obviously we don't have nearly the time to make profiles for all ~205 NPC's. (Ras said he had a program draw lines on the map for them, I think.) However, we can assign general regional ideologies. I think it could be done rather easily.

Religion would be simplest. On a blank map of the continents, we'd color it to correspond to religious ideology, the major faiths being Christian, Muslim, pagan, Buddhist, secular, and Jewish. We could add subdivisions (Catholic, protestant, Sunni, Shi'a, Hindu, etc.).

Then we could have a map labeling the NPC's by economic philosophy. A simple five-class scale for econ (communist, socialist, very mixed, capitalist, laissez-faire) would suffice.

To take rivalries into account, we could assume similar religious beliefs and government philosophies only increases the chance of friendly relations. Obviously, not every communist country will like each other. Same goes for capitalists and Christians and Muslims.

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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:04 am

Interesting...

However, there is a limit when you want to use maps. That would mean that I or Ras have to re-edit the maps ever time someone raises influence. And I do believe labeling every NPC country would be difficult as fudge.


SO how about this? We have list of our RPC and their influence. It would be point based. One point for every NPC and twenty points for ever RPC. So it would be like...

Example wrote:


Isis Rakael : 20 (1 RPC, 0 NPCs)
HESS : 35 (0 RPC, 35 NPCs)
KingIsaac : 25 (0 RPC, 25 NPCs)
Civa Orchestra : 55 (1 RPC, 35 NPCs)
Oscalantine : 15 (0 RPC, 15 NPCs)
Rasvidi : 0 (0 RPC, 0 NPCs)
Donkholm : 0 (0RPC, 0 NPCs)




Now... KI, I know what you are talking about... and my answer is NO, you don't have to follow through words of countries that have the post influence. That is decided case-by-case by your own call. You choose whether you want to listen to other countries. We won't make that decision. So please be at ease ^^

As for how we determine a country will gain influence... I suppose region would play into this. We can divide the continents into regions (much simpler to work with) and have number of countries assigned. So if do political activity in that country, you gain supports from those countries.

Now, when I say "political activities," that depends on country to country. It doesn't have to be nice. For instance, HESS could go on a crusade and kill all non-believers of Christianity and covert 100% of a region to Christians. Not nice, but you will get influence points for it. Oscal could buy out 50% of the nation's lands. Not nice, but you get influence. However, good stuff gets influence as well. Isis can go in and give massive bailouts to a country that is in need. That will get points. Civa could go and create an education program in the region. That will gain points.


I also have to thinking about something... since it was hard to enforce as well as hard to force people to have natural disasters... I am planning on making Wheel of Misfortune be done to NPCs as opposed to countries. Now... I COULD make it so that on a slim chance our RPCs get disaster. However that is optional.



What are your thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:35 am

I like your idea, Osc. I still say we incorporate my idea. And I'm willing to be the first victim of the Wheel. Don't exclude RPC's.

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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:02 am

So you want previously defined religious and economic dominance in the area? Like... some regions have Confuscianistic (although it isn't as much religion as way of life... but it has same binding effects as religion...) while having Communistic tendencies? I can bite. However, I will have to give condition that they can be changed through influence.

As in... it would be easier for countries with same ideologies... like Christian reaching out to Christians would make things easier... but not impossible for other countries. That would be even more so in a war-like situation or more violent takeovers, like communist revolution occurs and communist country supports it, then it is likely that the region would forcibly change into communism.



So... in terms of religion (more like belief system...) what should there be? The ones mentioned before?

1. Atheism (applies only to extreme pro-communistic countries)
2. Buddhism
3. Islamic (could further divide into Sunni and Shi'ite if needed)
4. Scholar Traditions (advanced spiritualism, actually... something that many East Asian countries had before they adapted Christianity)
5. Hinduism
6. Scientology (I don't like it, but I KNOW a lunatic would want to spread its ideology)
7. Christianity
(divided into Catholic, Christian, Protestant, and Satanism... yes, I would categorize Satanism as another Christianity... I hate them, but those evil sons-of-bitches spawned out of dark days of Church.)
8. Judaism
9. Animalism and Spiritualism (basically what HESS defined as "Pagan")


As for Economies... I think E had it right...
1. Communism
2. Protectionism
3. Socialism
4. Keynesian Capitalism
5. Capitalism
6. Neo-Liberal Capitalism
7. Laissez-faire
8. Corporatocracy


And as you would probably guess... some of them won't be starting stat. I don't think any region will start off with "Corporatocracy" and "Scientology" as their main schools. I think the most dominant religion would be Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Scholar Traditions, and Animalism and Spiritualism. As for Economic Standpoint... last three would be ridiculously difficult to find, since EVERY country in Tiberiam (except me) has a command economy.

However, all after that is game. As Oscal spread influence, more and more region would become Christian and Corporatocracy. As HESS spreads the influence, it will become Catholic and Communism.

I think one of these days we can give titles to people who have most influence. RP titles... really... like if E could EVER rake enough people into his side, we can give him something like a Papal State in his lands. Or if Isis manages to kill enough people, we can call him "champion of isolationism" or something like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:00 am

I like what you suggested. my only objection are the economic strata. All nations do some form of protectionism. nix that. as for capitalism, it would have three subdivisions: Keynes, neoliberal, and laissez. no general category. keynes is general. corporate rule is laissez. nix that too. in a comrades mind, all capitalism is corporate rule, but never mind that.

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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:40 am

Actually... Corporatocracy and Laissez Faire is COMPLETELY different thing. Laissez Faire means that the government has nothing to do with economy. Corporatocracy means that the corporations run the government. So these are two different norms.

As for Protectionism... I sort of used it for extreme case, so you would have to bear with me. I was about to use "isolationism," but I dunno if that would explain my meaning. So I used that protectionism thing.

As for general category of Capitalism... since there is such a broad difference between Keynesian and Neo-Liberalism, I wanted there to be sort of compromise for everyone. However, you may have a point... I will delete general Capitalism. Despite the supposed neutrality, the country is bound to fall between either or categories... and countries do tend to swap rapidly between two extremes and never one way.
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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:48 am

Forgive my terrible grammar in my most recent post. I was using a cell phone. A few more critiques.

1. Atheism (applies only to extreme pro-communistic countries and Rasvidi)
7. Christianity
(divided into Catholic, Christian, Protestant, and Satanism... yes, I would categorize Satanism as another Christianity... I hate them, but those evil sons-of-bitches spawned out of dark days of Church.)

Once again you hilariously separate Catholicism and Protestantism from Christianity. Ah, typos. As for Satansim, it's a recent invention to occupy the time of attention-deprived twenty-somethings.

If we're going to keep "protectionism," at least call it isolationism. There's a long history of governments which were/are totally closed off from the world.

Corporatocracy can be either Keynesian, neo-liberal, or Austrian (Laissez-Faire). I guess it's a subdivision, like communism is an extreme subdivision of socialism. Find, I'll accept keeping #8. After all, one of the current superpowers epitomizes Corporate domination.

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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:05 pm

Corporatocracy differs in a way that it is run by a company, and thus that means that every decision making is pro-corporate... it isn't even pro-business anymore. That's why I separate it.

As for the billion fragmented christianity... hmmm...

After reading Satanism... I do suppose it could just be filed under Spiritualism. That sounds about the same. I mean... isn't spirit worship in one religion just another demon worshiper in Christianity? On that note... I used Catholicism, Christian, and Protestantism to divide the Christian groups because there are so damn many of them. As in... "Christian Christian" refers to all the sects that fills our societies. Catholicism goes to people who have hierarchical structure with Pope at the top. Protestants... I know it is horrible wording... goes to people who believe in every strict code of conduct.

With that said... I am free to different wording for those three factions... since Church has never been my thing... those organizations ruin the good Christian name nowadays...

As for Protectionism and Isolationism... I suppose that sounds fine. I'll think about the two meanings over a cup of tea as soon as I finish writing my report and let you know on that ^^
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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:20 pm

Suggested Percentages
Unless otherwise mentioned, similar to that in the modern world

1. Atheism (Rasvidi, 10% NPC's)
2. Buddhism (7% NPC's)
3. Islamic (21% NPC's)
4. Scholar Traditions (5% NPC's)
5. Hinduism (13% NPC's, if we have to have it. I say we give this segment to Christendom.)
6. Scientology (0%) No.
7. Christianity (HESS, KI, Isis, 33% NPC's)
  • Catholic (17% NPC's)
  • Protestants (10% NPC's)
  • Orthodox (5% NPC's) I say we add it to the Catholic pile.
  • Anglican (1% NPC's. Weird hybrid of Catholic and prot. Honestly, it's an even balance.)

8. Judaism (.2% NPC's)
9. Pagans/hippies (6% NPC's)
10. Other religions (5% NPC's) Lowered

Total: 100.2%
Margin of error: Judaism

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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:29 pm

Anglican... isn't that Church of England or something??

Personally... I hate the word "Pagan" and "Hippies." Nextly... hippie isn't a religion. Respecting mother nature... I would say it is more or less Spiritualism, but being a hippie doesn't entitle you to religion. It is different from "Confucianism," or the extreme form thereof that was enforced in some East Asian countries... in a way that no other religion besides ancestral worship and Confucian belief was banned.

Hmmm... interesting division... I will ponder on it and give revised version. The reason for it is because of following:

1) most Tiberiam inhabitants ASSUME that every territory they conquer is uncharted lands... KI ESPECIALLY. So I assume that there will be less of "civilized" religions in the world if that was the case.
2) Since Catholics doesn't have a set... leader... yet... I assume that it won't be as widespread. And I also cannot assume history on this one, despite what you say about HESS being a very missionary country. So all Christian beliefs would be down a bit.
3) I am confused to say where would be the "East" of the continents. So I would have to figure out where to put those Eastern Religions... like Judaism, it isn't a missionary religion (apart from Buddhism, but that itself moves relatively slow and within similar cultures)
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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:08 pm

Anligacnism is the Church of England. Confucianism and Daosim are the scholar traditions.

I separate orthodox paganism and neo-paganism. The orthodox is 200 generations of people worshiping green snake gods. Neo-paganism has 1 million followers globally and consists overwhelmingly of people who hated going to church as kids but like religious holidays. The neos are hippies. The traditionalists are "by-the-book pagans," worshiping more or less the same way as their ancestors did.

As for "eastern" religions, I'd say give it to the small J-shaped continent. Karamagon strikes me as kind of eastern. Maybe. The northern continent is definitely overwhelmingly Christian, Ras being the notable exception.

Actually, what if we split the southern continent between Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism? So many choices.

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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:12 pm

I have my doubts that northern continents are overwhelmingly Christian. Because what KI suggests... most countries in the north apparently will be either underdeveloped or barbaric tribal areas... both of which is probably non-Christian. Even IF HESS went through crusades, I doubt that it would've been any good. Not to mention that now Ras has been created, the revolution would've spread like wildfire. So... Northern continent would have a lot of atheist revolutionary governments. Few Christian countries would be present, since they were there and fell later as revolution came to be. You also have to probably take note that there will be clusters of communism communities in the area as well.

West would indeed have very oriental cultures. That would be ideal place for Scholar Traditions (I half believe that code of honor that Civa suggests IS part of Scholar Traditions), but buddhism? I somehow doubt that both would be clustered in that area. I'll have to think about it. Wherever I put Hindu there will be Buddhism around it, since Buddhism came from Hinduism.

Probably? Most Christian nations are Oscal's trade hubs. This is because as Oscal became official country and started to massively trade, it made HESS Christian missionaries got easier routes to go around the globe to spread God's words. In a way... Oscal and HESS contributed ridiculously to global Christianity... despite the fact that CoP and OCC fight WAY too much for comfort. So I would say that most trade hubs will have Christian values. So... I suppose Oscal and HESS would be trying to compete for same locations, which makes sense, since HESS and Oscal has radically different ideals and they both work very covertly and politically. Meanwhile Ras, KI, and Isis have similar run-and-gun conquests, which means that they will have similar influence areas.
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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:38 pm

Yes, it would probably be best to count my religion as a "Scholar Tradition" since nothing else really comes close to describing my country's religion.


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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:38 pm

I like your ideas for general religious territories. One major critique.

Quote :
since Buddhism came from Hinduism.

Wrong. Hinduism is so much older than Buddhism. Hinduism began in a prosaic form around 4000 BC. It was codified around 1500 BC. The Buddha lived around 500BC.

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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:40 pm

Erm, that's what Oscal said. Buddhism came from Hinduism. As in Hinduism was first.
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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:53 pm

Civa-Orchestra wrote:
Erm, that's what Oscal said. Buddhism came from Hinduism. As in Hinduism was first.
Ah. I'm clearly illiterate. anyways, here's a very rough draft of what we could have.


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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:15 am

XDDDD...

But stop stretching the page. It is annoying.
However... that is very accurate depiction. I am fairly impressed [/sarcasm]

I'll let you know once I divided the regions and see which should be which. HOWEVER... I must note that Christianity won't be as wide-spread as you would think, with Ras being on the same continent as E and E spreading communism as well as Christianity.
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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:49 pm

Oh, like communists are known to be atheistic.

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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:24 am

Communism is known for atheism, no? ^^

I would say, though, that once Ras gone out of power, rapid revolution away from religion as well as dictatorship would've taken place... so historically, Northern continent would've had flourishing christian culture thanks to E, but once Ras's revolution happened the religious dark age came and never really left... with exception of port nations which E used to spread religious ideals.
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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:33 am

What if I "spread" Christianity, would that help?

Considering the "Pope" is located in my country...

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PostSubject: Re: Desk of Influence   Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:24 am

Pope is in your country O.o...

That may change things. Still... that would mean that you should start doing more "papal" stuff to legitimize that claim. Seriously, put that you have Pope in your database or something...

Well, since I did not know, I will stick to my current plan. HOWEVER... if two nations... KI and E... both promote Christianity in the area, I am sure all the pagans will be purged before you know it, don't you think? ^^
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