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How many leaders should Tiberiam have?
One
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Two
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Three
57%
 57% [ 4 ]
More than three
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Scaled to population
43%
 43% [ 3 ]
Other (please specify)
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
I don't care
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 7
 

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New Donkholme
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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:38 am

I stress that there needs to be more than one 'leader'.
Putting all the workload on one person is unfair, not forgetting to mention that then one person would control all of the decision-making, which is unfair to everyone else.
SoC is a very intensive position, and thus should not be consolidated with another position.
This brings me full circle to, "don't combine the other two positions".

Those who have voted "scaled to population": Did you mean Only the "Gov't Administration" position be scaled? (E.g. If we have X population, add another person to that title?)
If so, I can agree with this.
The other two positions cannot be consolidated with each other, nor with the Gov't Admin position.
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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:59 am

I agree with Donk.

Scaled to population's claim, I believe, is based upon the argument, "Tiberiam is RP based region, and thus only real person needed is SoC." While I agree that office of SoC has gotten FREAKISHLY LARGE during my reign, I have to stress that SoC's roles have always been concentrated to roleplaying area alone. Census taking and recruitment has always been the role of the chancellors. Not to mention I also never tried to push resolutions through judicial system when there was a problem. Rather, I tried to work with in within the negotiation. That was to make sure that SoC position doesn't become all-encompassed.

I still go by the same principle. Tiberiam needs more than one leader... in fact, three leaders. I sort of agree with KI on this in that there always needs to be three "chancellors." ... except I hate the names that KI came up with. SoC is only ONE branch of government, which just happens to oversee the largest area of need. Think of it as a role of President in Presidential system democracy. It does a lot, but not all.

I believe that since rulemaking (now that NX is no longer here) is secondary in Tiberiam, we need two things to be kept constant that isn't part of RP and needs FULL concentration: recruitment and Census taking. Recruiting more members are vital to the region, as people need to know that Tiberiam exists. Meanwhile, inactive members should be booted off so that Tiberiam is kept clean, which is why census should exist. That's my two cents for this 3 prong role.
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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:43 am

Actually you bring up an interesting point, Osc, which is that the SoC has too much power. The rules you make are akin to laws, in that they govern the way roleplay unfolds. One problem I see emerging from this is that you can basically create any laws you want without impunity; while you haven't abused this power in any meaningful way yet, I think it's time we institute some kind of restriction the enactment of rule systems. One way to regulate them, I think, is to subject them to a vote by the government.

Also we seem to be assigning duties ordinarily delegated to ministers or the equivalent to the leadership. Last I checked, a President doesn't just oversee one aspect of government, but the entire thing. If having multiple leaders is to avoid investing power in too few people, then I think we need to move away from delegating entire, important government duties to the leaders. If we do that, then we have no need for anything but the leaders, in which case the government will overall shrink to only three people, and while we would have three leaders, the government will in it's entirety operate through these three people alone. That is far too much concentration in power.

Instead, I propose that the leaders basically operate as the administration of the forums and oversee the operations of the region in general. Then, we can pick positions to delegate specific government functions to such as the SoC or census taking. If, for example, the SoC position becomes too expansive we could divide it into multiple positions, such as someone who would draft up "rules" and another who would be in charge of enforcing them, and maybe a third to act as a sort of editor to drafted rules. This is just an example. The three leaders then could de facto assign different sections of the government to oversee, though I think it should always be de facto in nature to afford a degree of flexibility to the position. Flexibility in leadership is paramount.

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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:04 am

Well...

You are absolutely right, Ras. I have yet to abuse my power, but I do make rules pretty much subjugated ENTIRELY to SoC's judgement. Definition of each terms could differ from one SoC to other according to my rule, making SoC very powerful position. Having checks through voting system seems acceptable and even encouraged.

I see your point in having multiple people. However, that seems... sort of superfluous right now... seeing as very few people are here. I say we should leave it to the leaders to produce such jobs later. It will happen because the workload becomes insane at some instances, and people would WANT to delegate some powers. I have come to this point... and the reason why I want to start something like Honorary RPers and Tiberiam Culture Squad is precisely what is going on.

SO... I say 3 is enough by the constitution. Give them power to delegate their powers further, and rest will follow on its own, I believe.
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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:46 am

As long as these leaders are elected.

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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:54 am

Might I suggest another three-leader system?

SoC + the Board of Culture [Osc & Co.]
Internal Affairs (Censi and recruiting) [Donk]
Cartographer [Ras]

I think this balances out everything we need done, while streamlining government. We neither need nor want a vote for every little dispute and confusion in the RP. That would take forever. We need the rapid judgment of the SoC position.

Yet we are concerned about corruption. Let's utilize the Board of Culture Osc has often mentioned. If he does something outrageous, he could be overrided/replaced by the BoC. Problem solved.

I don't think we need any more positions than the above, besides the possibility of assistants to the Cartographer or Internal Affairs, appointed by the respective officials. The three officials could be elected by formal vote or informally appointed by popular consensus. Honestly, I support the latter. I say we leave our diligence to the RP, and utilize a simple government. I'd be fine if we never even wrote a constitution.

Osc, you seem hesitant or, dare I say, reluctant to continue as SoC. Please do. You do a fantastic job, and I think your competence is especially needed at the commencement of this RP.
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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:39 pm

Alright well now that three is in the lead, making it the clear winner, and all the active members have voted, I am going to close the poll.

We will have three leaders in the government. Now we need to agree on what exactly these leaders will do, if they are elected, etc. and we also need to figure out a system of legislation.

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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:45 pm

Edes has sparked an interesting thought in my mind.
In real life, there are agreements between individual countries, but no real "Universal" governing body. (Excluding the UN)

What would a Universal legislature do? (In character)

Is/Should "Tiberiam" be simply the name for our world?
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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:17 pm

New Donkholme wrote:
Edes has sparked an interesting thought in my mind.
In real life, there are agreements between individual countries, but no real "Universal" governing body. (Excluding the UN)

What would a Universal legislature do? (In character)

Is/Should "Tiberiam" be simply the name for our world?
Tiberiam needs to be the name of our planet and nothing more. I tried to make a UN before; it failed miserably. We would need ~30 active nations for it to properly function.

A true world government would be entirely unacceptable. None f us would want to forsake our sovereignties.
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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:05 am

Well... you know my option:

one for recruiting and outside stuff (when we have enough members, we can do invading crap that Romulus wanted or something...)

one for census and inside stuff (changing banner, making embassies [with approval from person from above], keeping regional board active, etc.) also WA delegate

and SoC.



From there, we branch off depending on the need. Right now the first two branches probably won't need help. However, SoC immediately needs some volunteers for TCS (which makes up BoC). All offices should be elected, but differing requirements for each role. First office probably doesn't need requirements, but second office would need to be someone who we are familiar with (has stayed in the community for some time) and contributed actively in this forum. Meanwhile, SoC can only be chosen from BoC.


And as for my pre-announced retirement...
Well, SoC job is not only very tiring, but also it could become very biased. I COULD and probably will if no one is willing to accept the office keep the job as long as Tiberiam exists. However, the office should be rotated so that no one person can dominate the bias of the office... as SoC's office's interpretation requires a necessary human moral element, which is basically SoC's bias. My promotion of E to HRPer is an example of this: I felt like he did phenomenal work and he should be rewarded, even if I was to tweak my own system. While it was a good call in my part (at least I believe that he should be rewarded), it is a biased ruling that occurred by tweaking the pre-existing rule as an exception to the case.

So... having one SoC for a REALLY long time isn't good. We need to work in circles so that the current SoC can dismantle the bias built up from previous SoC, and future SoC will dismantle bias built up from before. Basically... the office of SoC needs anti-bias measure.



Well... that's my two cents ^^
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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:52 am

Double posting only because this needs to be done...

Tiberiam needs active census takers and active recruiter for the RP region to continue to grow. Therefore... we need some people who are willing to do this.

Currently... I have my hands full with SoC stuff. Although the only real construction needed is the wheel of misfortune (although I am debating whether we really need it thanks to new systems) and desk of isolation (which we might need as people have RL issues). As for rules... I can probably copy and paste a few into the vault and that's probably that (I mean... golden rule is solid, and anything else that would need is honorary act and database act. After that there is no need for me to import anything else.)


So yes... back to needing to discuss... what shall we do about this government??? Hmmm???
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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:36 am

Okay I think your original proposition is good, one leader for "outside" (let's call it foreign policy), one for "inside" (domestic policy), and one for "social policy" (things like roleplay, mediating disputes, etc. almost like a legislature or judiciary). I think the SoC position, however, should be limited to a ministerial type position subservient to the person in charge of social policy, as would the cartographer. So, adapting from Oscalantine's descriptions, here is my proposed list of leaders and some of their typical duties:
    Chancellor of Foreign Policy
  • Recruitment
  • WA Delegate
  • Organization of regional invasions
  • Official diplomat
    Chancellor of Domestic Policy
  • Census taking
  • Ticker updates
  • Forum/Sub-Forum maintenance
  • Corruption monitoring
    Chancellor of Social Policy
  • Oversee roleplay
  • Mediation of disputes
  • Oversee cartography
  • User management


Think all positions in the government should be elected, in staggered terms so leaders are not elected at the same time (minimal disruption to the flow of government). I think terms should last maybe one month. If more then two people run and nobody captures at least 50% of the vote, then I think we should have run-off elections with the two candidates in the lead.

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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:23 pm

I like Ras's proposition, with a small amount of adjusting.

Quote :
Organization of regional invasions
No. We're here for the RP, not to meddle in NS politics.

Also, the Chancellor of Social Policy seems to be a new name for the SoC.

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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:03 am

I am NOT and I mean NOT ... NOT EVER EVER NEVER EVER NOT EVER...

changing the name of SoC. You can give it fancy names, but I have already done my change and then started to re-change the title. So... SoC stays. Deal Razz


Other than that... well, we are giving that a chance, E. Although Romulous isn't here anymore... he wanted NS invader/defender crap. I wanted it there so that... well, if some people want to do it, they can do so. However... I doubt that we will be doing anything along the lines of that.

In other news... I think we need to add one more duty to Domestic Policy dude:

Welcoming newcomers.

I think I forgot to say that... they should have the thing with official welcome speech ^^

Btw... what is the ticker update?
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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:57 pm

Quote :
Btw... what is the ticker update?
Seriously?

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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:39 pm

Hey, my job is to keep the RP going somewhat smoothly without anyone doing something ridiculous. I have my hands full reading ALL the posts and databases, thankyouverymuch.

Please be as kind to explain to me what they are T^T
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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:02 pm

The ticker across the top, the little scrolling marquee thing.

Anyways, like I said earlier I envision the SoC position being subservient to the Chancellor of Social Policy. We need to make the SoC accountable to someone. The Chancellor could delegate most of the roleplay stuff to the SoC and concentrate on other areas, but in the end the SoC has to answer to the Chancellor on any decisions it makes.

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PostSubject: Re: New Government   Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:44 pm

So is there any debate? Let's ratify this thing.

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